[Stu]

In the last few months I have been looking at the implications of the homoousion principle. That is, the rule of the union between the Father and the Son as well as the union between the Son and humanity. In the decisive statement homoousios to Patri was the crucial solidifying of the Christological foundation necessary for the church’s survival. In a nutshell we have the corrupt i am in union with the I AM of the Son who is the same I AM as the Father and the Spirit. It was this principle that became the rule of faith or canon for understanding all the ways and works of God. No longer was humanity in possession of the nature and character of God. Because we say God has appeared as the man Jesus Christ, everything about Him shows us exactly what God is like in Himself and towards us, God and humanity in union is this one Human Being. This is the heart of the homoousion principle.

T F Torrance believes it was this rule that Athanasius used to determine the 27 books of the New Testament. There was a debate regarding the book of John, Hebrews and some of Paul’s epistles and whether or not it should be listed as canon. Torrance believes this rule established without question the final list as we know them today. My question is this: If the homoousion principle was used to ratify the list of the books of the New Testament as we know them today, should this very same tool be used to determine the choice of words and the grammatical structure when translating the original Greek to the modern English?

Many of our modern translations have used a different preposition as the rule and subsequent tool where the starting point surrounds in one degree or another, the sin problem and how this separates us from God. We can pinpoint this back to the Arian controversy of the 4th century where the question of Jesus’ divinity caused a change in style of worship. This led to a change in how we view Jesus with a stronger emphasis on His divinity at the expense of His humanity. Thus all things pertaining to God were pushed out of the human realm of understanding and placed in the ‘realm of the spirit.’ Semi Arian notions overshadowed Nicene theology to the degree that non-Christian dualistic ideas about what God can and cannot do and who He must and must not be became the filter through which all Christian ideas were assessed. So strong were these notions that have firmly established themselves in mainstream evangelicalism that anything Nicene is regarded with suspicion.

This has had devastating consequences on theology. One main area this has had a huge impact is in our modern bible versions. Dualistic and jurisprudent ideas have overshadowed and have determined the choice of words and the true conversation of the gospel has been lost to the contemporary community. We have gnosticised the bible where only those who have had special training to access the special knowledge of all things biblical are able to understand what it means. Our commentaries, dictionaries and lexicons are also under the same shadow. All of them fail to take the union of God and humanity in Jesus Christ into consideration.

The following are my draft attempts to translate from the Greek with this homoousion principle as the tool for interpretation and translation, the very same tool that was used to ratify the New Testament canon. What I believe we need to consider into the future is an attempt to come up with a translation closer to what the ancient fathers were reading where we actually have a very human form of communication between God and humanity.

There is much more to do to take into account the many nuances of each of the Greek words. I will be the first one to admit that my level of expertise in this area is minimal. However, there are some tools available that can take us someway to making clear what the words may mean. I have opted for contemporary meanings in the general Greek world at the time rather than be swayed by what tradition may want it to mean. This is a work in progress and may change as I get more of a grip on some of the words. It has been very interesting and very enlightening.

Matt 11:25-30

25Taking this opportunity to impart what has been decided long ago, Jesus answered, ‘I say you Father are supreme in authority in eternity and on earth causing wisdom to be hidden from those who are too proud while unveiling yourself to the humble and those who are willing to listen. 26Truly Father, you made it this way making those who appear foolish to be a delight in your presence. 27You have always given yourself to me. No one else is right on target of what the Son knows as the Father. No one else is right on target of what the Father knows as His Son. Nevertheless, He intends to reveal Himself through the Son.

28Come to me, to my side, all this work you do is too hard, don’t beat yourselves up, I am your rest for you. 29Take up my yoke of rest from me and understand from me, because gentle I AM with a humble heart, desires you obtain your rest and breathe life from me. 30There is no doubt that my yoke is better and my work I have set you to do is light.

John 1:1-14
1From the very start, He is the Word. Also this Word is all about God. As well as God, He is also this Word. 2He who is behind all things, shares His being with God. All things were created by Him and without Him causing it, not one thing came to be. 4He is life. His life also lights human beings. This Light of His shines in the darkness and the darkness did not have it the way He has it.

6There came to be an especially chosen person set apart and sent by God. His name is John. 7His purpose was to report to us all about the Light with the intention that all entrust through Him. 8John was not the Light. Nevertheless, his purpose was to tell us all about this Light. 9He was this Light and truth making Himself visible so that all could now see Him. 10He was in the world and He caused this world to be. Even so, the world did not know it at all. 11He appeared among His people and His own did not take Him in. 12Even though no one took Him in, He brought them out of His being with the right response in His name to be God’s children. 13It was not because of their heritage, no human decided it, no husband decided it but God decided all would be born out of Him. 14And this
Word caused Himself to be a mere human being and made His home in humanity’s home, close enough for us to see His glory, even the Father’s glory, the only Son, the embodiment of grace and truth.”

Romans 3:21-24

21Now also apart from this law, the impartial God has appeared to testify through this law and the Prophet, the impartial act of this God through the pledge of Jesus Christ. 22He set everyone at one again, and also given over to all this right response to this pledge. 23Because there are no distinctions, because no one is perfect and are inferior to this glorious person God, 24He has given impartiality freely to all, this His gift, through this His freedom, all this in Christ Jesus.

25In order to place before Himself God as mercy seat through the pledge in His blood, He intends to indicate His impartiality through His toleration by putting the sins of the past behind Him. 26In His self restraint towards us, God indicated to all His impartiality. Now in this proper time and place here now exists equity between all, having made equal these people out of the pledge of Jesus Christ.”

Hebrews 1:1-3

1Little by little and in varied ways through the ages God spoke to the fathers by His messengers. 2Based on the Son, now also the Final One, from this day they speak to us through Him, whom was placed as heir of the law for all people, having also made this age. 3Whose being radiates the glory and exact likeness of this person, God. He brings forth all things. Everything He says is the power of Him purifying our sins. He was made to sit down on the right side of majesty on high.

Col 1:15-22

¹⁵He represents this God, the one we normally can’t see, the first born of all, His own creative act. ¹⁶Because in Him, all things were created, in the sky, and on the land, everything we see and even the things we don’t see, along with stately seats, governments, those in power and their power to act. All things were created in Him and through Him making it His creative act. ¹⁷He is before all things and all of the above things are held together in Him. ¹⁸He is the head of the body, those He called out. The One who is behind all things and the first born out of the dead, brought everything to being in Him, giving them equal rank. ¹⁹Because in Him it was considered a good thing the whole deity should make their home. ²⁰And through himself He imparts peace to all these things, within Himself, making peace through the blood through Him crucified whether it is on the land or in the air. ²¹In days gone by you acted like aliens and God haters through your minds in your unfortunate religious efforts. Nevertheless, even now, He has imparted reconciliation ²² to bring you alongside making you unique and faultless with no case to answer where no one can accuse you before His presence.

[Elshevia]

Hi Stu, I have been reading your new direction for the Bible, can you enlighten me further, as my Bible is the KJV. is this a new version or what I am courious. God Bless Elshevia.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Elshevia

Hi Stu, I have been reading your new direction for the Bible, can you enlighten me further, as my Bible is the KJV. is this a new version or what I am courious. God Bless Elshevia.

This is my own work at translating the bible from the original Greek. I am using the same rule of interpretation as Athanasius, what T F Torrance called the homoousion principle. This is the union of the corrupt i am of fallen humanity with the I AM of God in Jesus Christ. Athanasius' writings all have this in mind. It was also used as a test tool to canonize the New Testament as we know it today. Whatever letters fell into line with this rule was accepted as canon. Thus I am using the same rule to translate the Greek to English.

Whenever translating the Greek to English, there are arbitrary rules that the interpreter uses as to the choice of what word to use and how each of the sentences will be structured so it says what they want it to say. I am doing the same thing but I am allowing the homoousion principle to govern what words I use and how the sentences are structured. In addition the Greek is a lot more emphatic and emotionally charged than the English and I am trying to allow that to come through. It is a work in progress and may lead to my own translation in conjunction with help from my colleagues.

What do you think?

[Elshevia]

hi Stu, Greek a difficult languge to learn, I studied Hebrew for a couple of years, back and that was difficult in itself, it sounds intreging I stick to the KVJ as I have been told its the nearest, that they can find to the old Hebrew, the newer ones out today do not give me the same as my old KVJ,[ but that's my own opinion]. If I may I will follow what you write, and see where it leads, God Bless Elshevia.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Elshevia

hi Stu, Greek a difficult languge to learn, I studied Hebrew for a couple of years, back and that was difficult in itself, it sounds intreging I stick to the KVJ as I have been told its the nearest, that they can find to the old Hebrew, the newer ones out today do not give me the same as my old KVJ,[ but that's my own opinion]. If I may I will follow what you write, and see where it leads, God Bless Elshevia.

What I have done is to take the above various passages and apply this rule of union in Christ. I am in the process of translating the whole epistle of Colossians to see how it reads and to see if there is a consistent flow and theme. The more I translate using the above said rule, the more it rings true with what the Nicene Fathers have written. In addition is gels more with Karl Barth's and T F Torrance's work of which I am strongly bias towards.

In addition, what I am concerned with in the modern text is that we have so many arguments within the whole body of the church and an inconsistency with Hebrew theology, according to modern Judaism. In teh Nicene era, the majority of the known world was Christian and there was a broad consensus on the truth of the gospel.

Christianity is built on the foundation of the Jewish tradition and modern Jewish theologians have found the modern Christian theology is full of holes. This concerned both Barth and Torrance and both felt the church should seek advice from Rabbis regarding their spin on the Old Testament and what would and event like the Incarnation mean to them if it was ever to occur. That is, taking an objective view of these possibilities and then approach the reality we have that the incarnation has indeed already happened. Rabbis would say that either our understanding of Paul is totally wrong or Paul understanding of his own tradition was gravely mistaken. I believe Paul was right but they way we traditionally interpret him is wrong. We need to work towards reconciling the two.

What I am undertaking is the beginning of what could take me years but I am excited about and will move forward. thanks for your encouragment.

[Stu]

I am unable to post any more of my rendered work as a lawyer has looked at my work and wants me to keep it close to my chest so to speak. I have nearly finished Colossians and I have been more or less commissioned to write the rest of the New Testament. It is so much fun. I might consider posting my work through snail mail if any body is interested. I am going to have to seek legal advice even on this.

Some are suggesting using an alias rather than my own name simply because of the controversy and emotions it may cause. Also as this process is time consuming where it takes me about 20 hours of work per chapter, I can now only afford minimal time to this forum. It does not mean I will go off the radar but I am totally consumed by this as I can now see what Karl Barth & T F Torrance were reading because they would only read documents from the original Greek. It is a beautiful, emotive, intense language where it provides a very concise and clear message of how far, wide, deep and huge the gospel is.

Many modern versions hardly come close to what the original Greek is saying. The Bible is God's communication to us using ordinary very earthed human language. What we have is a language in the bible that is out of reach of ordinary communication where one needs commentaries and numerous books to understand it. The gospel was for the poor, the weak, the foolish etc where is to be taken at face value. It was not meant for those who consider themselves to be high and mighty who like to patronize the rest for their ignorance in the ways of the Bible. I intend to turn this on its head and place what God intended into the very hand of ordinary people.

[Felicity]

What you have stated is what the rest of the non-academic world knows, it's just the academic that finds it so hard to believe usually

God speed Stu and I wish you well with this endeavour,,, you sound rather driven at the moment.......... so .... go be taken

[Felicity]

It was not meant for those who consider themselves to be high and mighty who like to patronize the rest for their ignorance in the ways of the Bible. I intend to turn this on its head and place what God intended into the very hand of ordinary people.

Stu. who are 'ordinary people' ? are you referring to non academic people ?

because none of them are by any stretch of the imagination, 'ordinary'

sorry sweetheart, bit of a bugbear with me.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Stu. who are 'ordinary people' ? are you referring to non academic people ?

because none of them are by any stretch of the imagination, 'ordinary'

sorry sweetheart, bit of a bugbear with me.

What I mean is that the letters stand alone in the gospel message and make in plain in common everyday language to all who may read it, not just those in the church. When i translated Colossians I find it is far more clear than most bible versions where there is a strong sense of oikonoia (communion) through out. That is God's communion with the believer and the nonbeliever. Just because the nonbeliever does not believe, does not mean that God does not commune with them. Many of the English words fall far short of what the Greek words are saying.

[Felicity]

Some are suggesting using an alias rather than my own name simply because of the controversy and emotions it may cause.

How do you feel about that Stu ?

I am not sure why it is going to be controversial, although you have tried to explain (sorry)... But I got a basting for admitting to using "The Message" to help me out.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Felicity

How do you feel about that Stu ?

I am not sure why it is going to be controversial, although you have tried to explain (sorry)... But I got a basting for admitting to using "The Message" to help me out.

The Message is a huge step in the right direction. Use it because there is just as much credibility in this version as there is in any other. What I am finding more and more is the Greek is far more inter-dependent freedom than English versions will dare to admit. The choice of words to use are totally arbitrary where the translator is given license to structure it in a way they want it to say. Yet, there is no uniform or universal agreement on the Christian doctrine giving the impression the church as a whole is divided against each other. This was not the case with the Nicene Council where there was a 99% agreement on christian things including the creed. This is unheard of today. I am trying to write with there works and there view and use this as the rule to make the choice of words that I feel they would have used had they understood our English language

[gerritse]

Hé Stu,

You wrote a very learned and solid essay about some aspects of the bible.

But I did not find that glorious message of the filling with the Holy Spirit.

And yet: Jesu has left us his Holy Spirit as his great gift, when he went back to his Father after his work being fulfilled.
He had the Father brought nearer to us. And now the Holy Spirit brings us to the Father, which whom one time we will sit in his throne, together with Jesus, ( Revelation 3 v 21), when we , by the filling with the Holy Spirit, with all his gifts and fruit, "will be blameles, ( Eph 5 v 27), without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish...holy".
That is our future, when we become 'more than conquerors' by the grace of the Lord.
What else we need.

Greetings
Ger ( from 'Ask Ger', where you can also find an ongoing biblestudy and a pastoral).

[Chaplain David]

I say keep on doing what the Holy Spirit is leading you to do and in your country's language, "Good on you."